Mondo Bizarre Magazine: February 2019

© Bleddyn Butcher

Forster’s (gentle) Inferno

by Nuno Robles (proofreading: Tommy Luther)

If Robert Forster had decided to disappear in the early 90s and never written a single word after that, he’d still be considered a unique legend and one of the most influential songwriters of the post-punk era. With The Go-Betweens, a band he co-founded with the much missed Grant McLennan, in Brisbane in 1977, he had recorded very well received albums, toured the world and also had a couple of hit songs in the mid eighties. The Go-Betweens were an institution of popular music and influenced countless artists since they began in a room in Australia.

Fortunately, Forster never made such decision. He never stopped. Among other things, he recorded great solo records, reunited the Go-Betweens to record some of the best music of their career and play live around the globe. He even took time to write articles, regularly, about the music that inspired him and the artists that were important to him.

Then, unexpectedly, McLennan died. For Robert Forster, who was supposed to meet Grant later in the evening on that fateful day (at a party at Grant’s house), it was a huge loss. A loss like no other loss before. Like some exceptional artists before him, Forster turned his pain, his feelings and his thoughts into great art. He kept recording, including “Inferno”, his new emotional album recorded in a heat wave during the summer in Berlin 2018.

He wrote a beautiful book, “Grant & and I” about the very close relationship between Robert and Grant. But it’s not your everyday rock bio or memoir. It’s something special. He wrote it with a gentleness and emotion that showed us the intensity of their friendship, the intensity of each other’s idiosyncrasies, the ups and downs of his own life (and there were downs, with some drug and health problems along the way) and, most of all, with a unique literary ability that shows us that Grant had to deal with some very serious issues (issues that eventually led to his premature death, which, as Robert once confessed, was a shock but not a surprise) without being voyeuristic or intrusive.

It’s a beautifully written memoir that, sometimes, reminds us of Patti Smith’s “Just Kids” and the way that Smith writes about Robert Mapplethorpe throughout their lifelong friendship. It’s a privilege to have the possibility of still listening to Robert Forster at the top of his game. He’s very much here and now, writing his best songs for us…and we should listen…).

It’s early morning in Lisbon. Late evening in Brisbane. I was expecting Robert Forster to be tired or somewhat impatient after what must have been a long day of promo interviews for his new album, “Inferno”. I was wrong. My voice sounded weaker than his, actually. and he was the one who seemed to be starting the day. Throughout more than an hour, he was never less than a gentleman, very kind, happy to share his thoughts and his projects and willing to discuss everything, no matter what. The main purpose of our conversation was his new album, and I didn’t know if he would be willing to discuss some other, more painful subjects like, for instance, his thoughts on the departing of his friend and Go-Betweens co-founder Grant McLennan. But he was. It turned out that “Inferno” was only a part of what we talked about. Fortunately, it was only the beginning…

For a change, let’s start at the end, ok? With the new album. I’ve listened to it a lot in the last couple of weeks and I must say that with each listen I get more and more convinced that this is one of your best collections of songs ever. After forty years of making music, you seem to be singing some of your best songs with a voice stronger than ever before…

That’s so great. Really? Do you like it? thank you. It’s fantastic to hear that. I’m happy we’re starting at the end and I’d love to have your thoughts on “Inferno”.

It’s a very cohesive album, your vocals are better than ever, very clear, very upfront and with a great feeling, you seem to sing with more confidence than ever before. The band seems to be very solid. The playing is masterful. Amazing production, really. The album starts with “Crazy Jane on the Day of Judgement”, an original melody behind an iconic poem by WB Yeats that, ironically, was first published in the 1930s in a book called “Words for Music Perhaps”. Scholars of Yeats’s work often say that in these poems Jane’s lunacy (probably a mask for Yeats) co-exists with a deep and powerful natural knowledge, given to her by experience and wisdom. Is it fair to say that this is an album of introspection for you, where you reflect about what came before, about your own life habits, your losses….about your own experiences?

I think that that’s a very very good connection to make. I hadn’t thought about it that way, really. I must say that the main thing that I liked about starting the album with this song was the mood of the track, for which the words are essential. Just look at the way it starts. There is almost a hypnotic feeling that you get from the first words. It just created a mood that I felt comfortable with. Actually, thinking about it, even before I start singing there’s a mood there…the poem and the words asked for that melody. Inspired it. And, of course, the first line is “Love Is All”…which, of course, it’s a really good first line for a song and for an album, I think. But you’re right, of course, in a curious way, the first line of the song, the melody, the words that come after, created a very special mood for the whole album, which makes it special.

Listening to all the songs of “Inferno”, paying attention to the way you’ve structured the order of the songs, made me remember your book, “Grant & and I”, and the way that both the book and this album give us so much about yourself. In the book, there’s a part, when you’re writing about your early years in Brisbane, where you tell your mother that you’d finally found out what you wanted to be when you grew up. You wanted to be retired, just like your neighbor Mr. Smith, who seemed to have such a charming and quiet life. Looking back at that unusual ambition and at everything that happened to you since then, how do you feel?

It’s funny you mention that and I must say that I look at it, at my life, in a most satisfying way, you know. For me, to be retired, and inspired by my neighbor’s life, was to be relaxed, to dedicate your time to something that you really liked. And, with everything I did in life, that’s what happened to me, I think. I mean, really, looking back, I’ve done what I wanted to do with my life. I never wanted to work from 9 to 5 five days a week, never. And I felt that way since I was five or six years old. Of course, then, I didn’t know anything about artists or much about music.

But I sort of knew what I didn’t want to do. When I started to write songs and when I met Grant, that’s when everything started to happen and everything became clear to me. And I’ve been doing something that I really like for 40 years now. It’s been just amazing to me that I’ve been able to do what I wanted to do for such a long time, in my own time, on my own terms. That’s quite incredible. And that’s how important my friendship with Grant McLennan was to me and to what I ended up doing with my life.

You mention a very good point and that’s a very good way at looking at it. You know, at times it has been hard, even financially. But I keep thinking that what keeps me going is that I’m doing the things that I want to do, I can make the records that I want to make, which, actually, is a great luxury, and something that I’m very grateful for.

I understand that. So, let’s go into the album and some of the songs. As I said before, it’s a very strong album, the bands sounds very tight and unified, the sound is very solid . It feels like you were on tour for a year or so playing these songs, and then, when you reached the perfect and powerful sound you were looking for, you and the band went into a studio and recorded it. And it also seems that you’ve been recording with Victor (Victor Van Vugt, the producer) for a long time now, which is not entirely the case, as you only worked with him once before, and that was on your first album, almost 30 years ago, which he engineered.

I’m glad that you talk about the sound of the record and the sound of the band, because it’s so important. Actually, that’s the main reason I travelled all the way from Brisbane to Berlin to record the album. I wanted to work with Victor, who is a great producer and an engineer, like you said. I love that sound that Victor gets, especially with the vocals. So I really wanted to work with him and I thought that he would be perfect for these songs.

I’m sure he would be the right person for the sound I had in my mind. And I’m very happy that Victor had the idea of recording the drums, the piano and the guitar together. There’s the sound of unity you kindly mention in your question. To Victor and me, these instruments should and would be played together to get that unique sense of performance to the record. And that’s the special sound, there. Quite simple, but very honest and true to our roots.

Which worked out beautifully since that’s exactly what you get from the album. A unique sense of performance and unity.

That’s what I wanted from Victor and from this album. Thank you for that. You mentioned, a while ago, the sound of my vocals. Do You know how I got it? I felt good. And because I felt so good with the recording method, I felt that I could really perform, I could put a lot of life and a lot of energy in my voice, and that’s why it sounds so clear and upfront. Just because I could rely on Victor. He could just talk to me as a singer in a way that made me really comfortable. He’s very very good with singers. Lead and backing.

How do you think it will work in a live setting, in this forthcoming tour?

We’re already working on it and I trust that it will work out fine. I can’t wait for it. And I think that we’ll be playing live, five or six songs from this album, so we must get it right.

Back to the album. In the song “No Fame”, you mention the idea of writing a novel. Then, in another song, “Life has Turned a Page” (one of my favourites) the lyrics are like a short story in itself. Are you seriously thinking of writing a novel? Is it something that will happen soon?

I’m working on a story. I tried to write something in the 90s. By then, I was writing a lot. Not a novel. Short stories. But it never worked, I must say. I would write 1.000 words or something like that, then, after a couple of days I would read it and I would stop. I never felt happy about it. I tried and I tried and I tried. But that was in the 90s, like I told you. And then ”Grant & and I” came out in 2017 and the reaction was so great that I started to write another story again.

At the beginning, I tried a few things that didn’t work, but then I concentrated on a story that I’ve been working on a lot, since then. And you know what? It’s the first story I think I’m going to finish. My first story that I think I’ll finish. And so, I’m working on that and I think I’ll be working on that for about a year. It won’t be a short story…it will be more like a short novel. I have to finish it, the story itself is quite unusual, so I’ll see if it’s any good in the end and then I’ll decide if I’ll want to publish it or not. Only then I’ll send it to a publisher to see what they think…


		© Bleddyn Butcher

Regarding “Inferno”, there’s not, I think, a weak song in the album, all the songs are very good, actually, but there’s a particular segment of the album that is very strong, works as a unit and gave me a feeling of serenity and intimacy, starting with “The Morning”, then “Life Has Turned a Page”, “Remain” and “I’ll Look After You”. It looks like you put a lot of work and thought into the structure of the album.

I agree. And I did. It’s great you get that feeling from it. I do put a lot of thought into the structure of my albums and the writing of my songs. You know, I write one or two songs a year. If I’m lucky, I write three. I write the melody, then the lyrics and I concentrate on it until I have it finished. I’m not one of those writers who go to the studio with bits and pieces. It doesn’t work for me. I can’t make sense of bits and pieces. It’s been like this since the early days of The Go-Betweens. I talk to the musicians about what sort of feeling I’m after, I show them the melody and the lyrics, but I don’t tell them how they should work on their instruments. But the arrangements, I do all of that when I’m writing the songs. Melody, voice, lyrics, chorus, etc. Then, each musician adds the talent and the inspiration.

In the song “Remain”, there are two sentences that, for me, particularly stand-out… “Big City Screens, Big City Dreams Remain” and “I Know What it’s like to be ignored and Forgotten”…what were you thinking when you were writing these words?

Around the time I wrote that song I was playing in Copenhagen with a band, about one or two years ago. And I was feeling very happy about how things were going for me at that time. I was playing live in a great city and life was good. I was in a taxi, when I thought of this song, you know. And then I thought about times in the past when I felt a little bit forgotten, when I felt I was on the outside of everything… it was in the late 90s, I must say, I was just a little bit unfocused. My record company, Beggars Banquet, had dropped me and I was just like, you know, I just felt lost in the whole thing and put aside…in a way, this song is connected with those years…I wrote it thinking about those couple of years when things were not working for me.

The last song, “One Bird in the Sky”, is a very emotional ending to an epic, yet short, album. May I ask you if this song was written thinking of Grant and other people close to you that you lost along the way? Things that you lost or only valued after they were gone?

Not only, I should say. But it’s that feeling, yes. It was more a feeling of myself that… ..ah… this is a very complicated feeling to express….it’s really about something that happens to me a lot. It’s about appreciating things, giving value to things after they happen or go out of fashion. To me, it doesn’t happen only with people. It happens with the most trivial things. TV Shows, records… you know? There’s always something inside of me that says, I’ll wait. Let all the people see it, let all the people appreciate it…. I’ll get into it when I’m alone, by myself, after the buzz… it happens to trivial things and important people as well, of course, but that’s more complex and difficult to express.

What about the trailer, a 12 minute movie, that you’ve recorded for this album? It’s a great piece of art in itself, very creative and captivating, where you give all of your time and attention to two fans and fanzine writers, including welcoming them into the studio to listen to the album and offer them delicious muffins. Do you always deal with your fans with such kindness and generosity?

I try to be always like that. I enjoy talking to people, even at shows, about the music or about anything they want to talk about. You know, people tell me great stories about their connection to my songs, solo or Go-Betweens songs…and I always find it really interesting to listen to those stories. I learn a lot from it. It can be very inspiring. When you’re writing songs for so many years, sometimes you forget that that there are people outside to whom the songs mean so much. And I always have that in mind. The connections of my songs with people’s lives who listen to them. I always find it very enlightening, it helps me…in a way, it’s one of the reasons why I keep on doing it, I guess. To know that there are people that like what I do, that care for what I do…..and, you know, I realize that I’m not a mainstream kind of artist, not anymore (if I ever was…), so I’m very appreciative of people that search about me and my music.

This takes us to your book, “Grant & and I”, which, for me, is a book about music and friendship. About a unique relationship between two soulmates. Which is funny, since my relationship with your music started that way. Not having money to buy albums, me and a couple of friends, had a kind of a record club, as teenagers, and we bought the albums with the money of the group and circulated the albums between us…or we would listen to it together and play it in garage parties…and that’s when I first come across the Go-Betweens, with “Tallullah” being one of the first three albums we bought (the others being Nick Cave’s “Your Funeral My Trial” and another from a Portuguese band)…I wonder if it’s important for you to know how important that friendship with Grant was (and all the great music that came with it) for thousands of kids around the world that grew up with your music and are still probably listening to your music now, 40 years later?

Of course. I know it from myself. I know how I felt about someone like David Bowie or Roxy Music. How they were important to me and to whom I became. How I felt about Talking Heads or Television. I know that feeling, of being very close to music when you’re a teenager. When you’re a teenager, you listen to it with and intensity and a purity that is very particular. In a way, you never get that feeling again.

There’s something about listening to records at that time of our lives that I think is so important, intense and pure. I’m glad we were there for you and other kids of your age, like other bands and musicians were there for me when I was 16. And especially doing it with friends, sharing the records, sharing the feelings you get from songs…it makes it even more intense I think. And when I go and listen back to those albums that I listened to as a teenager, it really does take me back…I can see pictures, I can see movies, I can see faces…it’s very real…just by hearing those songs again…

Were you expecting such a tremendous reaction to the book? Not only from the readers but also from critics? It was considered the most important book of 2017 by magazines like Mojo and Uncut, which is quite an accomplishment…

No, no, not at all. I was not expecting it. Because it was the first book like that that I’d written, I really didn’t know what to expect. You know, I really wanted the book to be accurate, to be right. I wanted to get the story right. I usually hear of rock biographies that take a year to write and that’s it. For me, the details were important. It took me a good five years to write it, honestly. I knew I could only do this one time. To tell the story of Grant and I. The music, the friendship, the band. This had to be done right. I had to make it as good as I could. In the end, I didn’t know how people would react. I thought that people would like it, but I didn’t know how much, I couldn’t tell.

It’s a very intimate book, of course, but it’s always very respectfully to Grant’s and other people’s life habits, except yours. You mention your life and your habits, but there’s a zone (drugs, health problems….) related to others than you, that you don’t seem to want to discuss. Is this right?

That’s beautiful because the idea of being respectful to Grant and to other people there in the story is something that I really wanted to do. It was very important to me. I can deal with my things, with my feelings. But they’re my own and I’m free to express it. I’m very happy that you could see that in the book, that’s really great.

You’ve once said that when the Go-Betweens ended, after the reunion, even, you felt that you were still rising. There was still a lot to do and potential to take advantage of..you were still on your way up. Do you feel that you were never as appreciated as a band as you should have been?

I really don’t think about it as much as people think that I do. Basically, I’m very proud of the music and I really think that we were successful. We made nine albums, we toured around the world, we played great shows…for me these are all signs of success. We could have been bigger? Probably yes, but I’m so happy with what we achieved. I always try not to be a bitter person. It’s not worth it. I’m very happy with how the Go-Betweens are regarded. It’s fine with me.

By the way, should we expect the second volume of the anthology of The Go-Betweens soon?
Yes, I’m very happy to tell you that it’s coming out this year. 2019, definitely.


		© Bleddyn Butcher

What about shows in Portugal? I first saw you live in Lisbon in 1989, in a very unusual venue (Estufa Fria, the sound was not brilliant, by the way…the acoustics of the place were terrible)….it was a remarkable performance…I wonder if you’re including Portugal in this year’s European tour?

I remember that show! Well, regarding this year, I’m trying to. I’m coming to Portugal on an interview tour in March…and then I’ll play there at the end of the year, maybe solo, with no band, but that’s still to be confirmed. I’ve been trying to play Lisbon and Porto for years and years and years and this year I think it will happen.

May I ask you what do you think about your son’s band, the Goon Sax? Their pop sensibility has some influences from your own music. Your influence is there.

I’m really happy for them. Louis, my son, writes some good songs, the band is very good…it’s really a surprise that they’re making albums and things are going so well for them…they’re not even twenty. I think that they’ll grow and get new sounds, new approaches and get even better. They’re only just beginning…

And you, are you still listening to those artists that influenced you so much in the beginning…Bowie, Beatles, Ian Hunter, Roxy Music, Big Star….?

Yes, I do…less than I used to…these days, I do a lot of reading….and that also influenced me a lot. These days, I’m more inspired by books than records. In the last couple of years, with “Grant & and I”, this album, the story that I’m writing…I haven’t listened to a lot of music…but those influences are still with me, they’re still an important part of what I do…those records and books are still inspiring me like they used to.

If you’re coming to Portugal, will you take advantage of our legendary waves and surf?

Ah ah, I love the surf culture, its part of me, but I haven’t surfed on a real board since the late 70s…