J.P. Shilo - interview, part II.

Guilherme Lucas interviewed J.P. Shilo and we couldn't pass the opportunity of publishing it. It is a very personal interview, a technical talk between two musicians. A little off our usual style, but worthy reading. This is the second part of a three part instalment. Part three, coming soon.

Part one : https://mondobizarremagazine.blogspot.com/2020/09/jp-shilo-interview-part-i.html

Part three: http://mondobizarremagazine.blogspot.com/2021/05/jp-shilo-interview-part-iii.html

J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography

For some years now, I have been following the brilliant work of J.P. Shilo, in all his facets as a multi-instrumentalist. My initial contact with him was through the great Rowland S. Howard. J.P. was the bassist who, along with Mick Harvey, accompanied him live. Wanting to know more about him, I discovered his band, Hungry Ghosts. It was unconditional love at first audition ... from then on, I have been carefully following his musical career. He's a musical genius. Period! After having already interviewed him, in a different context, for Mondo Bizarre Magazine. Here is the second part of the new one, solely focused on his musical gear. From musicians to musicians and to everyone who might be interested in knowing more about technical issues related to J.P.'s music.

In comments on your Facebook pages you have mentioned some idiosyncratic guitar styles of yours. Expressions like "chalk guitar" "ping guitar" "swirl guitar" and others, reveal a very specific stylistic code. I would like you to explain to us these styles.

 
Quite often in sleevenotes I’ve had to give my techniques “pet” names to differentiate them from just “guitar” (when there are multiple guitars on a recording.)
Not only that, but sometimes to draw attention to a particular sound that may not even be recognisable as a guitar.

On my most recent LP “Invisible You” – the opening track “Kid King Kong” has a sound/technique I have referred to as “Guitarre Obscura”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b31Jg3q_d60
I have developed and been modifying this technique since the mid 90s - It involves twisting and weaving a bamboo skewer through the strings, and then tuning accordingly, and moving the skewer to a particular fret. I have got it to a point now where the “secret tuning” creates a reliable set of clanging percussive tones that I can pick out notes and chords consistently.

I used the same technique on the title track of As Happy as Sad is Blue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzBU5j15iLM
It sounds like there are drums/percussion on the track, but it is just the prepared “guitarre obscura”

My initial experiment was on an improvised piece with Hungry Ghosts – “Africa”
https://jpshilo.bandcamp.com/track/africa
It was with picks though, (which you can hear come loose during the song! I eventually incorporate re-weaving the picks into the song. Hehe)

I’ve always enjoyed the sound of gamelans, and tried to get a guitar to sound something like it over the years, the sombre, slightly atonal percussive feel. Beautiful yet slightly disturbing.

I have since made some new modifications of this technique which allows me to also play clean melody lines with some of the strings. This piece will be on the next Hungry Ghosts LP.
In the early days I messed around with cutlery, and palette knives, but the most effective (due to its size consistency & cost!) has been the bamboo skewer.

  

J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography
J.P. Shilo previewing a new Hungry Ghosts piece called "Dahtdejuahl" at the Gasometer (Melbourne) July 16th, 2017. Featuring his 'Guitarre Obscura' technique, this sequence of shots captures the moment he removes the skewer at the dramatic climax of the song. The swift action causes the strings to ring out with a distinctive koto-like sound ∼ creating a segue into the next piece, where he then uses the skewer as a pick.

Another technique I have used on a few recordings is the “chalk guitar”. I initially used billiard chalk (which I would pocket from pool halls around the world ;-) , sorry folks ) The consistency of the chalk was best/finest, and created the smoothest friction. But the size of the blocks was not conducive to long strokes, hence the more frenetic “bowing” style on the initial recordings.
I guess it could be considered a sort of “acoustic e-bow” in that it gives the impression of feedback or even violins, but is completely acoustic! I use it when I want string sections to sound a bit warped.
The most recent example is on Tropical Fuck Storm’s LP – Braindrops, on a track called “Maria 62” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atUj74KPAys
(I also added some violins into the mix, just to confuse things.)

I have since started using sticks of street chalk, which allow for longer smoother strokes.

I’ve performed it a few times live, but it can get quite messy ;-) and the guitar strings do tend to get “clogged” and unplayable after, so it remains a studio technique mainly.

I also used the “chalk guitar” technique on the last officially released track by Rowland S. Howard - “Lost in Space” (The b-side of the “Golden Age of Bloodshed” single. Again combined with violins, it gives a slightly whirring/nauseous/sea-sick feeling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clfoqef1vGM
“…He was very weak by that stage. We had no idea really what we were to be doing. We'd recorded the 8 songs that are on the Pop Crimes LP. By this stage we were twiddling thumbs, and waiting on instructions from RSH. He said he'd like to do a song called Lost in Space. There was a strange loop that his pedal was making that was an off-cut from another song. He played harmonics over the top of it, then sat on the couch in the control room, and asked me to decorate. I sat in the control room with him and layered some violins and chalked guitar. He was fading, but didn't stop me so I guess we were writing a song. Mick tried playing drums to it, but aborted that mission quickly. - it was shelved, and dusted off for the b-side of Golden Age of Bloodshed." No idea if that was where we were headed. The piece surely didn't fit the rest of the record... it was like a space walk~~”

 

J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography
The Aftermath: chalked guitar for Tropical Fuck Storm song “Maria 62”.

The “Ping-Swirl” technique is probably used most notably on
the 3rd Movement of S L E E P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BWSmmrMqmk
(This was recorded LIVE in the early morning of October 8th, 2015 – The morning my friend and colleague James Cruickshank passed away. I had played the piece to him on one of his earlier stays when he was already quite unwell, and he fell asleep smiling, so I took it as a compliment).

As the title hopefully suggests/conjures, it is a combo of picking out harmonics, and adjusting the volume knob of the guitar with the ring&little finger of right hand, so the attack/pluck is inaudible, but the bell like harmonics are “swirled” into the mix. (Obviously I deviate from standard tuning – (often) so that is also a factor in why it may sound “different” for those playing along at home ;-) . )

I rarely use standard tuning anymore.
A few years ago in The Blackeyed Susans, I made the conscious decision to completely change my tuning, it felt like a way of personalising my role/sound in the band, and also kept it interesting, in that I had to re-learn all the songs with new chord structures!
It was a way of keeping things fresh. The tuning I settled on, was the same as my “Alone, Alone” tuning for Hungry Ghosts, and due to the lowered notes I could also create more interplay with the bass, or even an affect where the guitar itself sounded like a bass being played; take it’s place (kind of free up the bass).

This particular tuning is also used in two other different techniques not yet mentioned.
A “calliope” type sound that I used on this track – Fireflies (from As Happy as Sad is Blue) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxkgewaE0ho
It involves playing with the tremolo effect. The intensity is set to 10, the pulse is on 1.
I tap out chords with my left hand, and also tap higher chords with my right hand. It is timed to the pulse of the tremolo, so that the strings are touched only when the volume is briefly muted, giving that distinctly fairground organ feel.

A combination of a very similar tuning + the tapping technique, is on “Voodoo Talking” (from Invisible You) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEy_Nx0J14w
I am playing the bass line with my left hand, and tapping the “stabbing” chords higher up the fretboard.
This recording is basically LIVE - just me doing this technique & Steve Shelley on drums. (I later overdubbed a slide guitar that sounds like violins, and mixed in some of Mick Harvey’s organ parts but it is an incredibly simple arrangement.)

Some techniques are discovered purely though messing around, others are from challenges, like somebody giving me an object in the studio and saying “I bet you can’t make a sound using this… thing.” Hehe!
Ie. This thing(?) I managed to attach to a guitar and mic up, during recording the song “Contact” from Mick Harvey’s “Intoxicated Women” LP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v8EB2uIJAM I have a few other techniques, which Rowland credited on Pop Crimes as “General Strangeness” but these didn’t always involve guitars.


 

.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography     
Guitar modification - (with  found metal contraption) used for recording Mick Harvey's Contact from Intoxicated Women.

                                   

Do you prefer to play the electric guitar with a higher bridge position, for greater tone definition and decrease of buzz fret, or, on the contrary, for a lower bridge position, to play with less string tension?

 
Hmmm, I prefer higher. Often with the de-tuned strings there is more chance for string buzz. That said, I am adaptable, and modify my playing depending on what tools are at hand. Some guitars demand to be played certain ways, and regardless of what you try to inflict upon them, you get bucked.
Adaptability is the key! (It’s probably a good motto for Life too).
That, and a sense of humour.
Some shows, I’ve been given almost unplayable guitars, and decided then and there, I’ll just play slide guitar, or something else- hmmm maybe piano? ...anything can happen on tour; “what does this button do?!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmJwkimMVoM

What type of pick and string gauge do you choose to play the electric guitar?

I prefer a 0.73m pick. And favour 10 or 11 gauge strings (Though in Hungry Ghosts, I did replace the low E & A strings with D & G bass strings for a while, as I was tuning down to C & G).

That said, I have also been known to string a guitar with “Bonsai wire” for some projects.

J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography

Now, let's move on to the bass. Again, here, you seem to be a Fender man, playing a Fender Jazz Bass. In some videos of your live performances, I identify you playing on Brian Hooper's bass, and, most of the time, on Mick Harvey's bass. An Ampeg SVT-410 HE speaker seems to be the one you use mostly, with an amp head that I couldn't identify, maybe an Ampeg too. I would like to know more about the sound, and the tone, which defines your style of playing bass.

You have a keen eye! Again, I do prefer a Fender.

Through the Pop Crimes shows with Rowland I used Mick’s Jazz Bass (mostly.)
When Brian was re-introduced into the LIVE line-up, I would play on “Ave Maria” – he found the part I had written too “delicate/not to his style of playing” and would take a break.
(I also ended up singing it recently for the “tribute” shows - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYf4zx2qeXY it is one of my favourite RSH songs)

We usually did “Autoluminescent” as an encore and I often ended up playing Brian’s bass on that one as well.

On the actual Pop Crimes recordings however, I borrowed a nice old 70s Fender P-bass from Cut/Copy (a band I spent about 6 months touring internationally/playing bass in from late 2007 to early 2008). Funnily when they asked me to join, I had never played bass before, but they said that didn’t matter, they were confident in my abilities to pick it up.
Ampeg is a reliable choice of amp, and always a relief to find an SVT waiting on stage at soundcheck. With Cut/Copy, we were doing large festivals to tens of thousands, so the “fridge” was optimal. But for smaller shows the 4x10 is/was just as effective.

On the Pop Crimes record, we ran my bass through a Fender Princeton guitar amp and had that powering a quad box which created a very unusual tone, so we went with that set-up throughout.
The bass-line on “Pop Crimes” was based on a riff initially made up by Brian, though it was taught to me by Rowland, so it suffered from “Chinese Whispers” by the time I recorded it for the album. Brian later jokingly remarked that I had “fucked it up, and now I have to play your stupid bass-line!” haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HgjwFtX2Lk At the start of that song, and also on Rowland’s “explosion” part, I played a “drill” through the bass pick-ups. It is listed as a “drill” just to simplify the term, but it was in fact a small “battery-powered milk-frother”, (for making cappuccinos!)

I did use a fibre-glass “Italia” bass for a show when I guested in Blue Ruin once at a charity event in 2012. It had two separate outputs for each of the passive & active pick- ups. It had a semi-hollow body, so depending on the song I could get some really tasty/nasty/gnarly tones (and feed back) going on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PT0aKrpNNw

J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography

The way you play the violin is extremely cinematic, it immediately takes us to a timeless, deep and classical space, between sacred and orchestral music, and there are moments of overwhelming intensity, which I risk to classify as “vertigo of silence”. This is very obvious in your theme (already a classic) SLEEP, which you dedicated to Rowland S. Howard. At what age did you learn to play the violin? 

 
I’m still learning! My actual violin skills are very rudimentary, and my technique is “questionable” to say the least. I’m not a trained violinist.
I do love the sound of violins though (also cello & double bass) and have always tried my best to get a pleasing tone. I’m glad you enjoy.

In Hungry Ghosts though it was evident very early on that Tim Howden was a far superior player and therefore handled all the string parts. I got a little better/more confident over the years and so ended up playing a lot on my solo pieces, and subsequently also for others both LIVE & on recordings.
Mick Harvey’s “Sketches From The Book Of The Dead” & “Four (Acts of Love)”
also throughout RSH’s Pop Crimes, other notable albums include Adalita’s Self-titled Debut LP,
Amaya Laucirica’s “Early Summer” LP, and Brian Hooper’s “Trouble” ( to name a few :-) )

J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography

I play cello on this version of Nothin’ (from Pop Crimes)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbvbN4ZU-P0 And also use the bow on the cymbals. I thought it would be nice to have something that did the job of the bass guitar, but had a slightly different tone and texture.

I play Double Bass and violins – (as well as drums/glockenspiel) on this song with Adalita https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4YjXsCNjC4 SL E E P was really born out of an experiment, I was trying to create a relaxing/hypnotic feeling. The violin felt soothing, and the tempo of the piece is such that one unconsciously matches ones breathing to the repetitive wave like pulse. It was intended to lull. I played my recording of this experiment to Rowland, after our show at ATP Festival, in the van on the drive home. I looked in the rear-view mirror and noticed RSH had closed his eyes and drifted off, (which I took as a compliment.) He never mentioned the piece to me, however apparently once home, he told Genevieve (McGuckin) that he had just heard my latest recordings and enjoyed them. It wasn’t until his funeral, that I was asked on behalf of the Estate to perform it at the service.  

 

J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography

 
The next time I played it was at the Emmanuel Vigeland Mausoleum in Oslo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZhvWae-DN8 I rarely perform the piece live anymore, but have incorporated the technique into a version of Lee Hazlewood’s “Dirtnap Stories” that I sometimes include in my solo sets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqwvoXcw-MI I like your “Vertigo of Silence” appraisal. ;-)


  

J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography

I assume you use a loop pedal when you play your most intimate pieces on the violin. The result is masterful, with a simple and lightweight solution. I would like you to talk about the way you compose on violin.

Most people assume that it is a loop pedal, but it is in fact a 4-second delay (with about 3 or 4 repeats, so that it decays, and I can continue to build layers upon it.)
Because it is 4-seconds, I can fit two notes in there, and then play a different set of notes in the gaps, or harmonise with the first two.

In some ways it is kind of like a live version of the Phil Spector “ping-pong” recording effect, (the original take is played along to and transferred onto another track, or in this case another cycle, then back in on itself onto the 1st track on the next take, or cycle. As the track gets “drenched”, the initial track decays, and so this is how the “Wall of Sound” is built. 

J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography