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J.P. Shilo - interview, part II.
Guilherme
Lucas interviewed J.P. Shilo and we couldn't pass the opportunity of
publishing it. It is a very personal interview, a technical talk
between two musicians. A little off our usual style, but worthy
reading. This is the second part of a three part instalment. Part
three, coming soon.
Part one : https://mondobizarremagazine.blogspot.com/2020/09/jp-shilo-interview-part-i.html
Part three: http://mondobizarremagazine.blogspot.com/2021/05/jp-shilo-interview-part-iii.html
J.P.
Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography |
For some years now, I have been following the brilliant work of J.P. Shilo, in all his facets as a multi-instrumentalist. My initial contact with him was through the great Rowland S. Howard. J.P. was the bassist who, along with Mick Harvey, accompanied him live. Wanting to know more about him, I discovered his band, Hungry Ghosts. It was unconditional love at first audition ... from then on, I have been carefully following his musical career. He's a musical genius. Period! After having already interviewed him, in a different context, for Mondo Bizarre Magazine. Here is the second part of the new one, solely focused on his musical gear. From musicians to musicians and to everyone who might be interested in knowing more about technical issues related to J.P.'s music.
In
comments on your Facebook pages you have mentioned some idiosyncratic
guitar styles of yours. Expressions like "chalk guitar"
"ping guitar" "swirl guitar" and others, reveal a
very specific stylistic code. I would like you to explain to us these
styles.
Quite
often in sleevenotes I’ve had to give my techniques “pet” names
to differentiate them from just “guitar” (when there are multiple
guitars on a recording.)
Not only that, but sometimes to draw
attention to a particular sound that may not even be recognisable as
a guitar.
On my most recent LP “Invisible You” – the
opening track “Kid King Kong” has a sound/technique I have
referred to as “Guitarre Obscura”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b31Jg3q_d60
I
have developed and been modifying this technique since the mid 90s -
It involves twisting and weaving a bamboo skewer through the strings,
and then tuning accordingly, and moving the skewer to a particular
fret. I have got it to a point now where the “secret tuning”
creates a reliable set of clanging percussive tones that I can pick
out notes and chords consistently.
I used the same
technique on the title track of As Happy as Sad is
Blue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzBU5j15iLM
It
sounds like there are drums/percussion on the track, but it is just
the prepared “guitarre obscura”
My initial experiment
was on an improvised piece with Hungry Ghosts – “Africa”
https://jpshilo.bandcamp.com/track/africa
It
was with picks though, (which you can hear come loose during the
song! I eventually incorporate re-weaving the picks into the song.
Hehe)
I’ve always enjoyed the sound of gamelans, and
tried to get a guitar to sound something like it over the years, the
sombre, slightly atonal percussive feel. Beautiful yet slightly
disturbing.
I have since made some new modifications of
this technique which allows me to also play clean melody lines with
some of the strings. This piece will be on the next Hungry Ghosts LP.
In the early days I messed around with cutlery, and palette
knives, but the most effective (due to its size consistency &
cost!) has been the bamboo skewer.
Another
technique I have used on a few recordings is the “chalk guitar”.
I initially used billiard chalk (which I would pocket from pool halls
around the world ;-)
,
sorry folks ) The consistency of the chalk was best/finest, and
created the smoothest friction. But the size of the blocks was not
conducive to long strokes, hence the more frenetic “bowing” style
on the initial recordings.
I guess it could be considered a
sort of “acoustic e-bow” in that it gives the impression of
feedback or even violins, but is completely acoustic! I use it when I
want string sections to sound a bit warped.
The most recent
example is on Tropical Fuck Storm’s LP – Braindrops, on a track
called “Maria 62” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atUj74KPAys
(I
also added some violins into the mix, just to confuse things.)
I
have since started using sticks of street chalk, which allow for
longer smoother strokes.
I’ve performed it a few times
live, but it can get quite messy ;-) and the guitar strings do tend to get “clogged” and unplayable
after, so it remains a studio technique mainly.
I also
used the “chalk guitar” technique on the last officially released
track by Rowland S. Howard - “Lost in Space” (The b-side of the
“Golden Age of Bloodshed” single. Again combined with violins, it
gives a slightly whirring/nauseous/sea-sick feeling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clfoqef1vGM
“…He
was very weak by that stage. We had no idea really what we were to be
doing. We'd recorded the 8 songs that are on the Pop Crimes LP. By
this stage we were twiddling thumbs, and waiting on instructions from
RSH. He said he'd like to do a song called Lost in Space. There was a
strange loop that his pedal was making that was an off-cut from
another song. He played harmonics over the top of it, then sat on the
couch in the control room, and asked me to decorate. I sat in the
control room with him and layered some violins and chalked guitar. He
was fading, but didn't stop me so I guess we were writing a song.
Mick tried playing drums to it, but aborted that mission quickly. -
it was shelved, and dusted off for the b-side of Golden Age of
Bloodshed." No idea if that was where we were headed. The piece
surely didn't fit the rest of the record... it was like a space
walk~~”
J.P.
Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography
The Aftermath: chalked guitar for Tropical Fuck Storm song “Maria 62”. |
The
“Ping-Swirl” technique is probably used most notably on
the
3rd Movement of S L E E P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BWSmmrMqmk
(This
was recorded LIVE in the early morning of October 8th, 2015 – The
morning my friend and colleague James Cruickshank passed away. I had
played the piece to him on one of his earlier stays when he was
already quite unwell, and he fell asleep smiling, so I took it as a
compliment).
As the title hopefully suggests/conjures, it
is a combo of picking out harmonics, and adjusting the volume knob of
the guitar with the ring&little finger of right hand, so the
attack/pluck is inaudible, but the bell like harmonics are “swirled”
into the mix. (Obviously I deviate from standard tuning – (often)
so that is also a factor in why it may sound “different” for
those playing along at home ;-)
.
)
I rarely use standard tuning anymore.
A few years
ago in The Blackeyed Susans, I made the conscious decision to
completely change my tuning, it felt like a way of personalising my
role/sound in the band, and also kept it interesting, in that I had
to re-learn all the songs with new chord structures!
It was a
way of keeping things fresh. The tuning I settled on, was the same as
my “Alone, Alone” tuning for Hungry Ghosts, and due to the
lowered notes I could also create more interplay with the bass, or
even an affect where the guitar itself sounded like a bass being
played; take it’s place (kind of free up the bass).
This
particular tuning is also used in two other different techniques not
yet mentioned.
A “calliope” type sound that I used on this
track – Fireflies (from As Happy as Sad is Blue)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxkgewaE0ho
It
involves playing with the tremolo effect. The intensity is set to 10,
the pulse is on 1.
I tap out chords with my left hand, and also
tap higher chords with my right hand. It is timed to the pulse of the
tremolo, so that the strings are touched only when the volume is
briefly muted, giving that distinctly fairground organ feel.
A
combination of a very similar tuning + the tapping technique, is on
“Voodoo Talking” (from Invisible You)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEy_Nx0J14w
I am
playing the bass line with my left hand, and tapping the “stabbing”
chords higher up the fretboard.
This recording is basically LIVE
- just me doing this technique & Steve Shelley on drums. (I later
overdubbed a slide guitar that sounds like violins, and mixed in some
of Mick Harvey’s organ parts but it is an incredibly simple
arrangement.)
Some techniques are discovered purely though
messing around, others are from challenges, like somebody giving me
an object in the studio and saying “I bet you can’t make a sound
using this… thing.” Hehe!
Ie. This thing(?) I managed to
attach to a guitar and mic up, during recording the song “Contact”
from Mick Harvey’s “Intoxicated Women”
LP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v8EB2uIJAM
I
have a few other techniques, which Rowland credited on Pop Crimes as
“General Strangeness” but these didn’t always involve
guitars.
.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography Guitar modification - (with found metal contraption) used for recording Mick Harvey's Contact from Intoxicated Women. |
Do you prefer to play the electric guitar with a higher bridge position, for greater tone definition and decrease of buzz fret, or, on the contrary, for a lower bridge position, to play with less string tension?
Hmmm,
I prefer higher. Often with the de-tuned strings there is more chance
for string buzz. That said, I am adaptable, and modify my playing
depending on what tools are at hand. Some guitars demand to be played
certain ways, and regardless of what you try to inflict upon them,
you get bucked.
Adaptability is the key! (It’s probably a good
motto for Life too).
That, and a sense of humour.
Some
shows, I’ve been given almost unplayable guitars, and decided then
and there, I’ll just play slide guitar, or something else- hmmm
maybe piano? ...anything can happen on tour; “what does this button
do?!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmJwkimMVoM
What
type of pick and string gauge do you choose to play the electric
guitar?
I
prefer a 0.73m pick. And favour 10 or 11 gauge strings (Though in
Hungry Ghosts, I did replace the low E & A strings with D & G
bass strings for a while, as I was tuning down to C & G).
That
said, I have also been known to string a guitar with “Bonsai wire”
for some projects.
J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography |
Now,
let's move on to the bass. Again, here, you
seem to be a Fender man, playing a Fender Jazz Bass. In some videos
of your live performances, I identify you playing on Brian Hooper's
bass, and, most of the time, on Mick Harvey's bass. An Ampeg SVT-410
HE speaker seems to be the one you use mostly, with an amp head that
I couldn't identify, maybe an Ampeg too. I would like to know more
about the sound, and the tone, which defines your style of playing
bass.
You
have a keen eye! Again, I do prefer a Fender.
Through
the Pop Crimes shows with Rowland I used Mick’s Jazz Bass
(mostly.)
When Brian was re-introduced into the LIVE line-up, I
would play on “Ave Maria” – he found the part I had written too
“delicate/not to his style of playing” and would take a break.
(I
also ended up singing it recently for the “tribute” shows -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYf4zx2qeXY
it
is one of my favourite RSH songs)
We usually did
“Autoluminescent” as an encore and I often ended up playing
Brian’s bass on that one as well.
On the actual Pop
Crimes recordings however, I borrowed a nice old 70s Fender P-bass
from Cut/Copy (a band I spent about 6 months touring
internationally/playing bass in from late 2007 to early 2008).
Funnily when they asked me to join, I had never played bass before,
but
they said that didn’t matter, they were confident in my abilities
to pick it up.
Ampeg is a reliable choice of amp, and always a
relief to find an SVT waiting on stage at soundcheck. With Cut/Copy,
we were doing large festivals to tens of thousands, so the “fridge”
was optimal. But for smaller shows the 4x10 is/was just as effective.
On the Pop Crimes record, we ran my bass through a Fender
Princeton guitar amp and had that powering a quad box which created a
very unusual tone, so we went with that set-up throughout.
The
bass-line on “Pop Crimes” was based on a riff initially made up
by Brian, though it was taught to me by Rowland, so it suffered from
“Chinese Whispers” by the time I recorded it for the album. Brian
later jokingly remarked that I had “fucked it up, and now I have to
play your stupid bass-line!”
haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HgjwFtX2Lk
At
the start of that song, and also on Rowland’s “explosion” part,
I played a “drill” through the bass pick-ups. It is listed as a
“drill” just to simplify the term, but it was in fact a small
“battery-powered milk-frother”, (for making cappuccinos!)
I
did use a fibre-glass “Italia” bass for a show when I guested in
Blue Ruin once at a charity event in 2012. It had two separate
outputs for each of the passive & active pick- ups. It had a
semi-hollow body, so depending on the song I could get some really
tasty/nasty/gnarly tones (and feed back) going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PT0aKrpNNw
J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography |
The
way you play the violin is extremely cinematic, it immediately takes
us to a timeless, deep and classical space, between sacred and
orchestral music, and there are moments of overwhelming intensity,
which I risk to classify as “vertigo of silence”. This is very
obvious
in your theme (already a classic) SLEEP, which you dedicated to
Rowland S. Howard. At what age did you learn to play the violin?
I’m
still learning! My actual violin skills are very rudimentary, and my
technique is “questionable” to say the least. I’m not a trained
violinist.
I do love the sound of violins though (also cello &
double bass) and have always tried my best to get a pleasing tone.
I’m glad you enjoy.
In Hungry Ghosts though it was
evident very early on that Tim Howden was a far superior player and
therefore handled all the string parts. I got a little better/more
confident over the years and so ended up playing a lot on my solo
pieces, and subsequently also for others both LIVE & on
recordings.
Mick Harvey’s “Sketches From The Book Of The
Dead” & “Four (Acts of Love)”
also throughout RSH’s
Pop Crimes, other notable albums include Adalita’s Self-titled
Debut LP,
Amaya Laucirica’s “Early Summer” LP, and Brian
Hooper’s “Trouble” ( to name a few :-) )
J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography |
I play cello on this version of Nothin’ (from Pop Crimes)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbvbN4ZU-P0 And also use the bow on the cymbals. I thought it would be nice to have something that did the job of the bass guitar, but had a slightly different tone and texture.
I play Double Bass and violins – (as well as drums/glockenspiel) on this song with Adalita https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4YjXsCNjC4 SL E E P was really born out of an experiment, I was trying to create a relaxing/hypnotic feeling. The violin felt soothing, and the tempo of the piece is such that one unconsciously matches ones breathing to the repetitive wave like pulse. It was intended to lull. I played my recording of this experiment to Rowland, after our show at ATP Festival, in the van on the drive home. I looked in the rear-view mirror and noticed RSH had closed his eyes and drifted off, (which I took as a compliment.) He never mentioned the piece to me, however apparently once home, he told Genevieve (McGuckin) that he had just heard my latest recordings and enjoyed them. It wasn’t until his funeral, that I was asked on behalf of the Estate to perform it at the service.
J.P. Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography |
The
next time I played it was at the Emmanuel Vigeland Mausoleum in Oslo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZhvWae-DN8
I
rarely perform the piece live anymore, but have incorporated the
technique into a version of Lee Hazlewood’s “Dirtnap Stories”
that I sometimes include in my solo
sets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqwvoXcw-MI
I
like your “Vertigo of Silence” appraisal. ;-)
J.P.
Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography
|
I assume you use a loop pedal when you play your most intimate pieces on the violin. The result is masterful, with a simple and lightweight solution. I would like you to talk about the way you compose on violin.
Most
people assume that it is a loop pedal, but it is in fact a 4-second
delay (with about 3 or 4 repeats, so that it decays, and I can
continue to build layers upon it.)
Because it is 4-seconds, I
can fit two notes in there, and then play a different set of notes in
the gaps, or harmonise with the first two.
In some ways it
is kind of like a live version of the Phil Spector “ping-pong”
recording effect, (the original take is played along to and
transferred onto another track, or in this case another cycle, then
back in on itself onto the 1st track on the next take, or cycle. As
the track gets “drenched”, the initial track decays, and so this
is how the “Wall of Sound” is built.
J.P.
Shilo © L.J.Spruyt Photography |